KOKOROKO Savour the Sweetness of Joy on Second Album ‘Tuff Times Never Last’ – An MM Exclusive Interview

Three years on from the breakout success of Could We Be More, London-based collective KOKOROKO have returned  with their second studio album Tuff Times Never Last, a radiant, and emotionally  charged body of work that deepens their sonic identity upon an expanded creative horizon.  Released July 11th via Brownswood Recordings, the album sees the acclaimed eight-piece reframe and explore struggle, joy, perseverance, and unity, using their musical talents as a conduit for healing, togetherness and collective resilience. Initially sparked by a viral meme, the title grew into a mantra and concrete truth for the band, as they wrote their way through life’s complexities toward something brighter, bolder, and even more expansive.

On Tuff Times Never Last, KOKOROKO push far beyond their Afrobeat jazz roots, leaning into the lush textures of British R&B influences from the 80’s , West African disco, lovers rock, bossa nova, funk and neo-soul, while staying grounded in their unmistakable musicianship and rich, layered arrangements. From intimate ballads to joy-fueled grooves, the record serves as a sonic reflection of personal growth fostered throughout the challenges from the last few years, including surviving a global pandemic that only brought the group closer together.  

With their biggest headline show to date at Brixton’s O2 Academy approaching  this September, KOKOROKO’s latest chapter is set to unfold as a significant  homecoming and a joyful reminder that even in difficulty, beauty endures.

You’ve mentioned that the title is based on a meme, but that ‘Tuff Times Don’t Last’ became a natural truth that you discovered while writing. What else in the creation process came from something you thought insignificant at first but ended up being a recurring theme for you? 

SHEILA – the title came after the album was done. We set our intentions, but the first album was a lightbulb moment for us, and we also set out intentions with that album. As much as we are a highlife band, I think opening up the drawing board and exploring our sounds in different ways freed us up and then from there, when we recorded was another pinnacle moment for us. We recorded at Echo zoo in Eastbourne by the sea, we were away for a total of a month with a break in the middle. We were around so much vintage gear, and the piano there is originally the same piano that Duke Ellington had played years ago. It was our first time working with Miles James, (producer) which was great as well. 

From there that sparked this journey for us. Onome and myself were talking and decided we needed to make a positive album, and bring happiness and joy to people. I think it’s underrated. It’s a simple idea, but it can be overlooked how much responsibility and power we have as musicians. From there, giving 

It sparked creativity in a different way. From there we started writing more lyrics about love, both platonic and romantic. Elements of loss and friendship came into it and became involved as well. It was really a building block, and we knew we wanted this to be a source of joy and an album of light for people to listen to. 

It’s been over 10 years in the band – as a septet you’re accustomed to being musicians. I’m sure you’re accustomed to the way you work as individuals, and as a group. What still surprises you in your day to day life making music together journey? 

YOHANNES – It has been a while. Every interview I always say that I joined this band two or three weeks after I turned 20, and I’m 28 now. If anyone ever asks me about what my twenties were like, I can look back and say I spent most of them with these guys. 

I think we’ve all spent such a formative time together, even though we’re all different ages. Musically and personally  we’ve all developed in a lot of ways. Especially with this last album, Sheila’s songwriting has developed so much. Onome’s always been into production but he’s definitely developed in his ability to engineer and make things sit sonically in the right place – really particular things that not even producers can do.

Watching everyone go through that process has been amazing to the point where you can see everyone’s growth even beyond KOKOROKO. It creates this safety within all of us. I look at everyone and I know I’ll be okay, I know we’ll all be okay. Personally as well, Onome’s had a baby since we started making the record, Sheila’s living alone in London, which is a big deal. We’ve all grown up a lot, since we;’ve been together and especially while making this album. This album feels like a coming of age and I feel like you can hear it in the music this time around. 

Speak to me about momentum – I know the pandemic halted a lot of that after your debut EP in 2019. A lot of this album’s themes are based on momentum and keeping things going in hard times – did that time in your careers serve as inspiration for this record ? 

ONOME – The pandemic, although it put a lot of things on pause for us, we wouldn’t have written the first album without the pandemic. We wouldn’t have had the time to go and make a record – we would’ve found a way for sure, but it gave us the space to create something. 

Trying to get back into touring, and the financial impact – touring is the way the industry is made up for us – making our money on the road. The year after was tough, especially when committing to investing in the studio, and continuing to write. But regardless how tough and how little money there was, we stayed on track, and with this career regardless of how little money there was. It probably gave us a conviction to carry on and write this project and enjoy it. By the time we got around to recording this project it felt sweet – like things were moving again, we enjoyed it a lot, and you can hear that energy in the music. The pandemic didn’t directly inspire it, but I’d say it affected the energy of the record. 

“Even in memory, the times that were tough tend to sweeten up’ – I love how this perspective of appreciating the sour and sweet really backs the album. Speak to me about any creative blocks that are sweet to look back on. 

ONOME –The whole album. The first album was difficult in a different way. There was a pressure from us not knowing how to make a record. Some of us were more advanced than others, and some of us had more empty ideas. The second time around, we knew more about how we would approach it. For some of us, our process was to execute it as if we were working in an office. Coming in, making the music, and then leaving. As we practiced that again and again, the songs started to get better and better. If you heard some of the original demos, they were a mess. But in those broken ideas and the ideas that weren’t clear or maybe more playful, like ‘Three Piece Suit’ –  when it came to the studio and we got the whole band in there they really blossomed and you can hear the playfulness and the energy of it. A lot of the record came from broken ideas that became good ideas when everyone came into the room. It’s added to the charm of the record – with some of the tracks, the room recordings have the original mistakes that will live forever. That’s the record, and we love those parts more than the perfect parts.

I know you guys have your own studio space now. How has that affected the synergy in your creation process? Does having something that’s yours make you more comfortable in exploring different sounds?

SHEILA – having a studio has been life changing for us. The first song we wrote in the room was ‘Higher’. From there we wrote so many songs – we’ve practically written two albums worth of music just because we’ve had a room. It’s been a blessing, and it’s been nice to have a space where other people can come in. We’ve had a few friends come in, mainly from Amsterdam but also some guys from Brazil. We’ve met with so many people. I was quite hesitant at first to have people in our space because I’m protective over it, but it’s been nice to realise that our space becomes part of peoples stories and journeys. It’s not just about the band. It’s about the great community that’s been created around us. That’s thanks to Onome, because if it was up to me there would be no one else in the studio. It’s not a perfect space but I think there;s a beauty in the mess.

‘My Father in Heaven ’ – is a bit of a stripped back moment as I understand –  is it hard to scale back sonically when there’s so many of you with so many vibrant influences that influence your work so directly? 

ONOME – it was tough for all of us when it was being recorded.

YOHANNES – I think if anything that makes it easier, because there’s always things to add. There’s enough people for there to always be ideas. 

With this song, it was meant to have drums and more people singing and more synths. It’s rarely a straight line where you have an idea of what something can be and it turns out exactly like that.

ONOME – With empty moments you can end up becoming more of a perfectionist – because there’s less going on. With that song, we circled around things a lot because it was emptier. When it’s busy you can hide and tuck little parts because the energy carries it, but when it’s something slower with less going on you really want to get it right.

The album artwork cover, illustrated by  Luci Pina, is an ode to London in the summer, inspired by films like ‘Crookyln’, and ‘The Wood’, films associated with nostalgia. Talk to me about why you needed vibrant colors to represent this album, and could you expand on that nostalgic feeling that seems to seep through a lot of your artistry? 

SHEILA – I love colour, it’s nice to have work that’s expressive. We first saw Lucy’s work for a show we were involved with. We really liked what she did and we worked with her for the EP – she made an illustration of a man in a suit.  

Her work is so simple but so captivating. When it came to the album artwork, it was a no-brainer that we wanted to work with her again. We gave her a few references, and knew we wanted it to feel like London. The fact that there’s lots of people is significant – there being an energy and a vibe in the room with a lot of people in a place, us being a band, and there have been a lot of people involved in making this album. We gave references from a few films like Crooklyn in particular, a lot of images of black families together. There were a lot of pictures we gave her of us that represented unity – us eating, when making music, or just being together outside. 

This album pulls from a lot of influences –  British R&B from the 80s, neo-soul, West African disco, bossa nova, lovers rock and funk. Sonically taking cues from the likes of Loose Ends, Don Blackman, Common, Sly & Robbie, William Onyeabor, Patrice Rushen, Ofori Amponsah and Cymande.  Your influences seem to expand, especially from the last album – will your influences continue to expand on your future records? 

YOHANNES – I think the good thing about most of us in this band is that when we sit down to write, we’re in the moment.  but members like Tobi, who plays guitar, sees things differently. He wanted to know what audience we were targeting and what type of live show we were trying to play and base our writing on that. I see it as writing the music from where we are and basing the live show on that after writing from an honest place, and I don’t think there’s a right or wrong way, but we definitely go with the latter approach.

The next record whenever it comes will be an extension of everything we;ve done – not in a repetitive or monotonous kind of way, but more in a sense that we’ll touch on these influences while fitting them more into our world. Making the Neo Soul and West African Disco still sound like KOKOROKO. And we’re only going to get better at that process.

If I were to guess, I’d say the next album is going to be the second chapter to that – we’ve spoken about making ballads records, going back to doing a whole EP with no synths – we keep it honest, which I love.

You have a significant show at the O2 Academy Brixton coming up – what are you expecting the live experience to be with this album? 

ONOME – Brixton is such an important venue – for all of us, in different ways. Sheila went to school in the area, and I used to live near there- I’ve seen some good shows there and I remember seeing people running to see the shows. We were a live band before we were a recording band. You could track the energy, and our shows often started a little slow and then got faster and faster and then louder and louder. As we’ve written more and got more of a catalogue, we can be more creative and tell a story with our show and create some beautiful slow moments. Everyone is singing a lot more, which is pressure, but it;s been more and more enjoyable to have quiet and still moments as well, and trust everyone to find their place within the performance. Having a catalogue is a blessing when creating a show. We’ll find a way to tell the story of the album and pull in all the influences and make some friends, so we can celebrate the record and the city we love in the way that you portray it. 

YOHANNES – Playing this music out has been super fun. We went from our live gigs to being totally instrumental, to this album having a lot more singing, almost on every song. I think at this point I enjoy singing more than playing the keyboard – it’s a dream come true. 

Growing up my favourite musicians were Stevie Wonder and The Temptations and Marvin Gaye – all who have strong instrumental elements in their music, but they’re all major singers.

 When becoming a professional musician, you either play what you want to play and don’t make a profit, or play what you don’t want to play and make a large profit. We’re at a stage where we can play what we love and make a living off of it too, which is a dream come true■